QUESTION: My first question to you is what is yoga?
SHRI MATAJI: Yoga is actually it means that union with the Divine, with the Divine Power which surrounds us. We are not aware of it, but it is described in all the religions that there is an all-pervading power of Divine Love and that is what one has to get connected to. That is real yoga.
The other yogas that people talk of Patanjali are for thousands of years, long time back. He started to give this yoga when first the physical thing with this should come, one thing. Then mental fitness should come. Then emotional fitness should come. How to establish that was the point. And it used to take a lot of time and the tradition was that only one person needs to get the Self Realization. The reason may be, perhaps I think, they used to, first of all, evaluate the personality and then give Realization because if you give to anybody else and they might misuse it and try to exploit people. That would be another reason. Another thing was formerly people used to all torture all the saints. Any where in the world, if you see the history, saints are all tortured. Real saints, they are all tortured. So maybe they might be afraid that they should be so prepared, so equipped that they can bear all the torture. That might be the reason. But it was the traditional way. They used to give Self Realization to only one person, but when I was born I found out that it doesn’t work if you have Self Realization for one person and time has come to give en masse Realization.
So what I did only thing that I put in as my effort that I worked on the various peoples, personality and their kundalini and tried to find out what are the permutations and combinations that torture these people. Why can t they get Realization? And by 1970 I found out the method which it is very easy to raise the kundalini of all the people. That is how it is working. So Sahaja Yoga means means means born. Born with you is the right actually it’s the right or everybody [???] to get this yoga.
QUESTION: The following question is that what is the benefits of raising one’s kundalini? …
SHRI MATAJI: Oh, immense, immense because when kundalini goes through the six centres, these centres are responsible for our physical, mental and emotional being and, of all the things, they are responsible for our physical being also. So when this kundalini passes through that, then she nourishes these centres, she integrates them and then connects the whole thing to the all-pervading power so that that power starts flowing in the spinal cord in the parasympathetic nervous system. As a result, all this sides, aspects of life completely improve. Sometimes they are completely cured of physical ailments of mental troubles and emotional imbalances, but, of all the things, the spirit enters into your attention and, when you are enlightened, you can what is destructive for you and what is constructive for you and you have the power to accept whatever is constructive. That’s how it works. You can imagine immense benefits… [???].
QUESTION: How do these benefits affect our families and our friends?
SHRI MATAJI: Of course. Because it is the power of love and compassion. You see, what is the trouble with human beings is that they have evolved from the animal so this evolution is not complete, I think, as human beings also. But whatever it is, all these horrible things that are lingering within us and our personality are also coming from our heritage. Then also we acquire because we think too much, we acquire lots of things and our orientation also changes from other orientation like food, but we become sort of great greedy people. We become very money-oriented and the whole system changes to a different line, but these lingering things are still there, so, with that also, we have jealousy, aggressiveness. All those things are actually our inheritance. So, as a result, you become a person who can see things, who can watch things and not react. That’s the greatest benefit I think….
QUESTION: It’s a sense of freedom.
SHRI MATAJI: Absolutely. Because you become so peaceful, absolutely peaceful. It’s like this the other day I gave the example that if you’re standing in the water, the waves are rising, then you are afraid of the waves. But supposing you get onto a boat, then you can watch those waves. You become peaceful about it. But supposing you also know how to swim, you can jump without any fear and save so many people. So this is how Sahaja Yoga works. It’s complete freedom and freedom which is full of wisdom, the light of your spirit. So you see what work you are doing is right, whatever you are doing is without fear.
That’s what Christ has said, Know thyself. You have to know yourself. You don’t know what you are. And that’s why all these problem are there.
QUESTION: Maybe there are other people who want to ask questions too, but until they ask, I’ll keep asking questions.
SHRI MATAJI: Yes.
QUESTION: Did you do any work with Gandhi?
SHRI MATAJI: I didn’t do work, as such. I was a little child of seven years and I stayed with him and he found out about me. He knew because he was also a realized soul, but very much full of disciplines and things like that. So people never understood that side of Gandhiji. But he was a very spiritual man and he loved children and I used to if I did any work, I used to take out his temper some time, entertain him.
But actually, you see, with him, he wanted me to find out how he should write the different bhajans. In his bhajanori [???] they had a book, written down all the hymns, so in what series we should write. So according to different centres, I told him that you have to awaken on the centres, so you [???] one after another, see, first for this, second for this, third for this, but we used him.
So that way, he used to talk to me on spiritual life. You must have heard about another, Lal Bahadur Shastri, our [???] great great should say he was a very great political leader, as well he was our prime minister. He was also a realized soul. So he [???] discuss with me, so he said, Let us get this Pakistan straight, then we can start Sahaj Yoga, but I started just after his death, I started Sahaj Yoga.
QUESTION: Does it relate to other traditions, such as bhakti yoga or karma yoga or does it encompass all those?
SHRI MATAJI: Karma Yoga?
QUESTION: Bhakti yoga.
SHRI MATAJI: Bhakti Yoga. Now, for that, today I already spoke that Shri Krishna was a very clever man and he thought, There’s no use telling these people straight forward stuff because men are such that you tell them something, they go round and round, so best is to put them round and round so that they come to the point.
In the first place I said about bhakti yoga, which was very interesting. He said, You do bhakti. You give me flowers. You can give me fruits. You can offer water to me. But you must do ananda bhakti meaning when there is not the other. That means when you become realized souls, which nobody understood, you know. But we are doing a no ananda bhakti, because unless and until you are connected, how can you do bhakti. It’s a simple thing. So they are praying [???] bhakti all the time.
The other day I met somebody from the Hare Rama. They said, We love Indian culture. It’s very peace-giving, this, that. Wearing sari’s very good and all that. But I said, Do you think you have received or achieved what you had to do? With doing all these things, do think is the end of it? What about Indians? Where are they? And we have to go further, that is, to achieve that ananda bhakti, you have to do that. And the lady was quite convinced that whatever you may try, these things, you should find out what did you get out of it. Did you get your Self Realization? Then it’s very useless. And they realized, she realized these things. But they still have to achieve that state of Self Realization. Like that, you see, this was the work of [???].
Then about karma yoga, [???] straight was. He said that what you’re working [speaks in Hindi]. Do whatever you like, but don’t expect the results [???]. [speaks in Hindi]. Don’t expect any results or any benefits or any profits out of it. Whatever you want to do, you do without any colour, without any fruits. Another this is befooling because it cannot do any work without seeing those fruits, you see. That’s not human nature.
It’s only possible when you get Self Realization. So this karma yoga is also not so clearcut for people. They come to me [???], saying, We do all the work, without any truth about it. Are you sure? You are still at the human level. You cannot do it. And that is what he tried to say in his two styles of theatre. But, at the very very beginning, he said, You have to become [???]. [???] means a realized soul. You have to become. What is the sign of a [???]? He has given all that in the beginning because I said today that he was not a businessman. A businessman won’t tell the thing is so high, what he’ll tell about the low price and then another price, another price, but first thing only first thing he told, You become [???]. And then he said, You do karmas. You see, his style was to play around so that people immediately come to the point that you have to get your Self Realization.
QUESTION: …Why did you choose Sahaja Yoga instead of karma yoga and bhakti yoga?
SHRI MATAJI: You see he didn’t use that. He just wanted to wanted to put it on to Sahaja Yoga to become Sitapragyna. But how to convince? Human beings, you know, have a mind which takes them here, there, there, everywhere. So, to steady down, he is helping a lot because people who are now frustrated, completely finished, that We can’t do all this, so they come to Sahaja Yoga. He’s has done a job for me, I must say.
QUESTION: What does after Self Realization [???]? Is that the supreme?
SHRI MATAJI: After Self Realization. This, I always say, that they can’t become social. You become collectively conscious first of all collectively conscious because you know there is no one other. You are everything. You are the ocean. Not only that, you know, but it is in your awareness to get this collective consciousness. For example, you can feel the centres, your own centres on your fingertips and also you can feel the centres of others on your fingertips. Now, if you can cure your centres, you can cure others. The concern which was towards yourself spreads to all the people. That’s how the whole thing become so global. It’s a global, I should say, a global religion.
QUESTION: Are you actually able to cure other human beings once you’re at that stage?
SHRI MATAJI: Of course. They get cured, they can cure others and we have also a hospital in Bombay now, another we are going to have in [???], where we don’t charge where we don’t charge them for any treatment because their own power works. But for their food and their roofs, you can charge because, otherwise, not for their awakening or for their curing. People get cured of many diseases, practically most of them.
QUESTION: How long does it take to become at that state [???] time or practise it takes to be at the Self Realization stage or will it take a month or is it a kind of a period or what can a person…?
SHRI MATAJI: How much time?
SHRI MATAJI: Time, no time. We call it [???]. You see, one time somebody ask Ramadaswamini how much time it takes for kundalini to rise. He said, [???]. In Sanskrit it means that moment. But there should be a deserving person who should do that and deserving person who should ask for it. But I find so many people are deserving these days with, the way it’s working out, [???], so many of them, thousands and thousands.
QUESTION: The present moment I read a book recently called The Power of Now and it seems as if people get deluded into the past and the future and they forget who they are in the present moment. Could you talk about the present moment?
SHRI MATAJI: Yes, it is in the present. One has to move the present, but you can’t be in the present, temperament you can’t be. One thought comes to you like this, falls down. Another thought comes like this [???]. One comes straight from the past or maybe from the future and we’re jumping on the cusp of it also. In the centre of these thoughts there is this, which is complete silence. When Kundalini rises, she elongates those thoughts and the spaces in between and you become thoughtlessly aware. Jung has thought about it. Jung has thought about thoughtless awareness. Lao Tse had talked. So many people have talked about thoughtless awareness where you don’t think, just watch.
QUESTION: How do you know you have got Self Realization?
SHRI MATAJI: You will know because you will feel on your fingertips the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, they call in Sanskrit language [???] and Adi Shankaracharya had said. In Koran they call it Ruh. You can feel it. You can also feel it coming out of your fontanel bone. You can feel it. It is an experience. It’s not just lecturing or stamping someone. It’s an experience that you have.
QUESTION: Thank you very much, first of all, for coming to our city here and choosing our city over other places and I would like to ask you do you have a message for our viewers, the thousands of people who could not listen to your messages today and for the weekend you’re here? So do you have a brief message for that they could, perhaps, see you on the TV?
SHRI MATAJI: …The whole thing, you want?
QUESTION: No, no, no, just a message from you.
SHRI MATAJI: In short.
QUESTION: Yes, very brief…. My show is not very long. It’s just half an hour.
SHRI MATAJI: My simple message is you first know yourself. You must know your potentials and then you will realize you’re not what you know about yourself. You’re much, much more.
QUESTION: Good. That’s very simple message….
QUESTION: Someone told me a story about a man named Gopi Krishna, who accidentally raised his kundalini and then he wandered around and wrote books about it.
SHRI MATAJI: He’s horrible. That’s [???]
SHRI MATAJI: See, a person who talks about Self Realization also must be a man of character. How can you sell, how can you sell spirituality? See and then he’s ruined so many people’s mind like this, by telling lies.
Now I’ve been doing this work since 1970, as I told and now I’m seventy-seven years of age. I’ve not seen anybody being harmed. Everybody has seen helped. And in the shastras also like this, Gnyeshwara has written about it, so [???]. Even Adi Shankaracharya has written that kundalini is the solution and he’s the one who tried to say things just to divert the attention of people so that they don’t take to Self Realization. I can’t understand. Really, I can’t understand your point.
QUESTION: Because if it’s God how could it be bad?
SHRI MATAJI: How can you be?
QUESTION: If it’s God and spirit, how could it possibly be bad?
SHRI MATAJI: You see, you can understand. Any intelligent person can understand this point. How can it be bad? How can it harm you? It’s your own mother. Kundalini is your own individual mother. She’s tape recorded all whatever you are and you will be. All the predictions she knows. And she’s your mother.
When you were born, all the trouble of your birth was taken by your mother. Did you have any trouble?
QUESTION: Not that I remember.
SHRI MATAJI: It’s something like that. It’s very simple. She’s very loving. She’s very kind and she knows everything and she’s anxious to give you your Self Realization.
QUESTION: So these people who have gone and warned people about this, they’re actually caught in their own fear, their own projection about it, rather than the experience, the actual experience.
SHRI MATAJI: It’s all mental projections [???], but they’re mental. That’s all they’ve done.
to be continued…